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General Discussions


General Discussions
  1. Net / Forum Etiquette..cuts / step over..
  2. CD-R and CD-RW media
  3. Macrovision 7
  4. Region Code Control
  5. Denny's page for New Members visiting Dell Talk
  6. What is the "Burn In " for a new PC? (Author: Fireberd ~ Jack)


I have added this space just for some feedback and issues open for discussion


g-1: Net / Forum Etiquette..cuts / step over..

NOTE: The Dell Forum as of Dec 17th, 2008 has changed with the time to lean more toward a blogging, MySpace, Facebook type of site. Yes, there is still some User to User support buried beneath the blogging, wiki, etc junk. Good luck in finding it though. The long time Regulars that helped create the support forum of the past have pretty much moved on. There are a couple here and there left, their support, information is still as solid as ever, however the new bloggers are mostly a waste of good internet space, there for the "points". I wish you the best of luck in finding support from the new Dell forum. I have left the old information below just as a reminder to what was and what was lost.


(below is no longer revelent)

I was told a long time ago from one of the original "Regular" members that the people, volunteers, Dell-owners are what makes this forum work and an enjoyable place to search for solutions / help with their computer system. Each volunteer is dedicating his / her own time in an effort to help someone and deserves the respect of the other members. When someone posts a question and then another member replies, his reply falls under the original post, another member wishing to add his / her comments should post next-in-line, following the thread bye using the "Reply Button" in the last message of a thread, do not step-over / cut the thread bye using the "Reply Button" in the original post --->

<12/10 04:07PM>Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD....John Doe

--------<12/12 05:11PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD...Ann

---------------<12/12 08:15PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD....BR549

-----------------------<12/12 08:42PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD.. David R.

Someone would ask; "What's the big deal? On the Technical side, following a thread makes it much easier to review the issue at hand, the steps ( in a particular order) that have been taken, the consequences there of, was it resolved or not, the follow up. Also using the Reply Button in the last message will make the thread flow smoothly, more uniform in all three of Dell`s views. Furthermore consider giving the OP (Original Poster) time to respond back from the person that replied first, especially if the OP was vague and additional information is needed; or if there are a set of specific trouble shooting steps being asked to perfrom. At times too many people "helping" in a thread can be cofusing or overwhelming to OP.

Someone would ask; "What is a "cut / step-over " and again what's the big deal? Example:

<12/10 04:07PM>Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD....John Doe

--------<12/12 05:11PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD...Ann

---------------<12/12 08:15PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD....BR549

-----------------------<12/12 08:42PM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD...David R.

---------<12/13 06:18AM>RE: Why am I having Trouble with Direct CD...Su234 <--The "cut"-->

The "cut" is very easy to see due to location of the post, date and time. Su234 should have hit the Reply Button in David R.`s post instead of John Doe`s. The first impression; It is considered bad net etiquette, It also shows contempt to the other members that responded to the issue before the cut, disrespect, like their attempt at help was dismissed by the "cutter". Each persons response is due the consideration of the other members of the forum. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong if the attempt was sincere. Now there are times when cuts do happen, when two people are typing at the same time to the original post or the next post in-line. You have to check the time of the posts, when this happens most of the Regulars, members that have been here for a few years, myself included, will post right back, apologizing for the cut, this is the polite thing to do and shows respect, pure and simple. Then if someone is being a smart-a$$, he may disserve to be cut, and / or ignored by the other members. I have heard the comment, "I am not talking to the last poster / message, I want to talk to the original poster, they might miss my post". If the thread stays on Topic, everyone in the thread should be talking to the original poster and if the problem is not resolved before hand, then I doubt very seriously if your post will be missed by the person. Also people using the Linear View may not realize the cuts / step-over that do show up in the Threaded View.

Denny Denham, one of our Regulars also has information on this as well listed in all his signatures within his posts. He states it`s OK to cut / step-over someones post if they are wrong, I do not necessarily agree with that, you have to evaluate the post to some degree. Is the Members suggestion sincere or is he being a jerk, will the suggestion simply not work or will it cause more damage? No one around here is perfect and a show of arrogance is not well received bye our Regulars, your suggestion may not have worked for this post but actually did for another.

The "cut / step over" that bothers the people the most, called a "stomp on" are the ones an hour or day later that say the same thing as another member, like an "echo". Someone either never took the time to read the replies from the other members or frankly did not care. Why someone would do this is beyond me, it's just rude and highly frowned upon. Usually those will get the most responses. Of course none of this is set in Stone, one may post anyway they choose, regardless of whether it offends others, to a degree. Respect, common courtesy and civility has always been the protocol of DellTalk.

Note: I do not want to give you the wrong impression or mislead you, there are no set rules for posting other than Dell’s Terms of Service. There is an understanding or better yet a call it Tradition, our way of showing respect for each other, but you have the sole right to post in the manner in which you choose. Again it may be old fashion or a dying breed but I will continue to honor each member’s attempt at help by adding any of my comments to a thread in the proper order. If I cut, step over everyone else and post directly below the original poster then it can be a sign of arrogance, sorry but that is how it is perceived now and in the past.

Yes there are exceptions to this, if someone is being a jerk, or a suggestion that may do more harm, such as "The only way to get rid of that error is to format C: ". I may step in and say something like " Yes formatting may indeed correct this but you might want to try this first…"

I’m not saying there is a right way or a wrong way to post, simply Tradition.

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g-2: CD-R and CD-RW media

I found some information on CD-R, CD-RW media; these quotes are from Wimm L Rosch ~ ~Fifth Edition.

The CD-R medium records information by burning the dye layer in the disc.  By increasing the power of the laser in the drive to 4 to 11 milli-watts, the laser heats the dye layer to about 250 degrees (Celsius) .  At this temperature, the dye layers melts and the carrier expands to take its place, creating a non-reflective pit within the disc.

Three compounds are commonly used for Photo-reactive dyes used by CD-R discs.   These are most readily distinguished by their color, either green, gold or blue.

Green.  The dye used in green CD-R discs is based on a cynanine compound.   The Taiyo Yden company developed this photo-reactive dye, which was used for the first CD-R disc, including those used during the development of the CD-R standards.   Even now, green CD-R discs are believed to be more forgiving laser power variations during the read and write processes.  The green cynanine dye is believed to be permanent enough to give green CD-R discs a useful life of about 75 years.  In addition to Taiyo Yuden, several companies, including Kodak, Ricoh, TDK, and Verbatim, make or have made green CD-R discs.

Gold.  Gold CD-R discs used a phthalocyanine dye developed by Mitsui Toatsu Chemicals.  The chief advantage of gold over green discs is longer life because the dye is less sensitive to bleaching by ambient light.  If it were on a dress or shirt, it would be more colorfast.  Gold CD-R discs are believed to have a useful life of about 100 years.  Some people believe that gold discs are also better for high-speed (2x or 4x) recording than are green discs.  Mitsui Toatsu and Kodak manufacture most gold CD-R discs.

Blue.  The most recent of the CD shades is blue, a color that results from using cynanine with an alloyed silver substrate.  The material is proprietary and patented by Verbatim.  According to some reports, it is more resistant to ultraviolet radiation than either green or gold dyes and makes reliable discs with low block error rates.

Media Color: first color is reflective layer; second is die layer Brand Names Technical Notes
Gold-gold Mitsui Phthalocyanine Dye
Kodak Less tolerance for power variations
Maxwell Works best in drives that use Long Write Strategy to mark media
Gold-green Imitation Cynanine dye
Memorex More forgiving of disk-write and disk-read variations
Kodak Has rated life span of 10 years.
BASF Works best in drives that use Short Write Strategy to mark media.
Silver-blue Verbatim Azo dye
DataLifePlus Similar performance to green media plus
HiVal rated to last up to 100 years
Maxwell A good choice for long-term archiving.


The CD-RW system is based on phase-change media.  That is, the reflective layer in the disc is made from a material that changes in reflectivity depending on whether it is in an amorphous or crystalline state.  The most common medium is an alloy of antimony, indium, silver, and tellurium, which has an overall silver color.

In its crystalline state, the medium has a reflectivity of about 15 to 25 percent.   In its amorphous state, the reflective falls in few percent-enough to be reliably detected by the laser-based disc-reading system.

A blank disc has all of its reflective medium in its crystalline state.  To record data, the drive increases laser power to between 8 and 15 milli-watts and heats the medium to above its 500- to 700-degree (Celsius) melting point.  The operation is straightforward and equivalent to the CD-R writing process except for laser power.

Erasing the disc complicates things. To completely erase a disc and restore it to its original crystalline state, the disc must be annealed. The reflective layer is heated to about 200 degree Celsius and held at that temperature while the material re-crystallizes. The process requires about 37 minutes for a complete disc. On-the-fly erasing of a disc is possible by selectively annealing small areas of the disc with the laser at moderate power. The annealed area may be rewritten with higher laser power.

The recording layer of Ag-In-Sb-Te alloy normally has a polycrystalline structure that is about 20% reflective. When data is written to a CD-RW disc, the laser in the drive alternates between two power settings, called P-write and P-erase. The higher power setting (P-write) is used to heat the material in the recording layer to a temperature between 500-c and 700-c (932-f -1292-f),causing it to melt. In a liquid state the molecules of the material flow freely, losing their polycrystalline structure and taking what is called an amorphous (random) state. When the material then solidifies in this amorphous state, it is only about 5% reflective. When being read, these areas lower in reflectivity simulate the pits on a stamped CD-ROM disc.
Note that despite the name of the P-erase laser power setting, the disc is not ever explicitly "erased." Instead, CD-RW uses a recording technique called direct overwrite, in which a spot doesn't have to be erased to be rewritten; it is simply rewritten. In other words, when data is recorded the laser remains on and pulses between the P-write and P-erase power levels to create amorphous and polycrystalline areas of low and high reflectivity, regardless of which state the areas were in prior. It is similar in many ways to writing data on a magnetic disk that also uses direct overwrite. Every sector already has data patterns, so when you write data, all you are really doing is writing new patterns. Sectors are never really erased: they are merely overwritten. The media in CD-RW discs is designed to be written and rewritten up to 1,000 times.

If we are speaking in terms of drives, hard-ware, CD-RW drives have virtually replaced CD-R drives in the market place today, mainly because CD/RW drives are fully backward compatible with CD-R drives and can read and write the same CD-R media with the same capabilities. So a CD/RW drive can function as a CD-R drive with the additional feature of burning to a re-writable media, a CD/RW disc.
Now talking media, A CD/RW disc can be burned or written to just like CD-R`s, the main difference is that they can be erased and reburned again and again. Most standards usually say around 1000 + - times.
Also they say "Four (4) main differences exist between CD/RW and CD-R media. In a nutshell, CD/RW discs are:
More expensive
Slower when writing
Less reflective
Actually a CD-R drive should be able to burn to a non-formatted (Packet writing format) CD/RW disc but due to the "Less Reflective" media, you may have problems reading them on some devices and too it simply is a waste of the media.
Use CD-R media for audio and permanent back-ups of discs and CD/RW discs for thing you want to re-write over and over again, most like using them for daily / weekly back ups.

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g-3: Macrovision 7

Macrovision 7 is a proprietary piracy protection scheme that utilizes the signal in the non-displayed region of a video signal to prevent copying. Macrovision varies the signal that controls the automatic gain control (AGC) of a recording deck, thereby washing out and darkening the recording signal of a tape or DVD disc being recorded.


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g-4: Region Code Control

Motion picture studios want to control the home release of movies in different countries because theater releases are not simultaneous. Therefore, they have required that the DVD standard include codes that can be used to prevent playback of certain discs in certain geographical regions. Each player is given a code for the region in which it's sold. The player won't play discs that are not allowed in that region. This means that discs bought in one country may not be play on players bought in another country. The following table lists the code numbers and the regions each number covers. Keep in mind region codes are entirely optional and discs without codes will play on any player in any country. Note: With Dells systems, you need to insert a DVD that is for your Region the first time you use the DVD player in order to Set the Region Code. It is not recommended to use a non-coded disc the first time.

Table DVD Region Codes
Code Region
1 Canada, U.S. and U.S. territories
2 Japan, Europe, South Africa, Middle East (including Egypt)
3 Southeast Asia, East Asia (including Hong Kong)
4 Australia, New Zealand, Pacific Islands, Central America, South America, Caribbean
5 Former Soviet Union, Indian Subcontinent, Africa (also North Korea, Mongolia)
6 China


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g-5: Denny's page for New Members visiting Dell Talk

Denny has set-up another excellent site for new members (and some oldies too), to review before posting on Dell Talk's forum. Some general background, issues you might encounter and proper etiquette. Please take a few minutes to visit his site.


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g-6: What is the "Burn In " for a new PC? (Author: Fireberd ~ Jack)


The "burn in" is not a fixed amount of time. Different vendors do different burn in's. e.g. the individual components may be burned in for a certain time (and it's basically what the vendor wants to use - whether it's an hour, 12 hours, 24 hours, or merely a test to make sure the board is working). When a vendor gets the parts, some have QC burn in's and others do not, again it depends on the PC vendor and sometimes the particular component. Once the PC is assembled, it is tested and may be burned in, again depending on the particular PC vendor or depending on the model (e.g. severs and commercial PC's may get more burn in than a consumer PC).

According to Dell tracking, when I ordered an 8200, the parts were "picked", the PC was assembled and it was shipped on the same day. If the Dell tracking was correct, I'd say it didn't get much if any "burn in".

However, where I worked (I'm retired) at a large Federal Government agency, we had a contract with an independent PC company for about 4000 PC systems. I went to the vendor's plant, along with some others, and on the "50 cent tour" we were shown their burn in processes, which included a 12 hour burn in and testing of incoming components that they didn't make themselves (they had a plant in Taiwan and made their own motherboards which were burned in before shipping them to the US). Once the PC was partially assembled it went through another 24 hour burn in cycle and then when the PC was completely assembled it went through a final 24 hour burn in and QC cycle where 3 different burn in programs were run on the PC.

**There is no Guitarist like a Pedal Steel Guitarist**
(PII, 350Mhz - P4, 2.26Ghz - WIN XP Home)

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